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LibertyIsland
Welcome to Liberty Island
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In_God_We_Trust
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| Hello, No tell me about it? |
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DarkLaw
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 5
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Ehhhh, while I am not a fan of our current Govt...I don't know if Anarcho-Capitalism would be best.
A place like Liberty Island, can very well proceed just as America was envisioned; as a Republic. The DIFFERENCE lies in the caliber of People residing upon the island and the ability to oust a corrupt leader.
A very laid back Republic.
Think of it as a large City, because in essence, that is all it is.
A Governor/President/Mayor (whatever you wanna call it) presides over the Island with a 'City Council' type of 'Congress', if you will.
With a small population, your voice can readily be heard and I fully agree that while the 'majority' should not be able to infringe on one's Property Rights or unalienable rights, a majority SHOULD be decisive when talking about taxes, new projects, improvements, etc.....as LONG as it fully respects property rights.
Example - no majority can decide to pave a road through your land, etc.
You needn't go create a new form of Govt or resort to types of Govt that will not last in the long term. With all of the other 'liberties' inherent to such an Island, a Republic would be un-corruptible.
That's my inflated $0.02
_________________
"...may your chains set lightly upon you..." - Samuel Adams |
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DarkLaw
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 5
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Also - you have to realize that a project like this DOES require a small form of Communism to the extent that those pioneers that invest in the Island and move there MUST help support it in order to make it happen (at least in the beginning).
Simply buying in for your $5,000 share or whatever is NOT the only thing required to keep a sovereign nation going. You MUSt have some sort of tax base. And taxes are NOT 'evil' or bad. Only when the People are taxed without fair representation and for the greater good of a few are they bad.
When a SMALL and FAIR tax is accessed upon the People, it helps the Nation prosper. And that is one of the MOST important aspects of building a Nation/Island from scratch. Otherwise it will fail and you will own a barren piece of land with no access, goods, security, or readily available utilities.
This is a MASSIVELY detailed conversation, just in itself, but when looking at the bigger picture, it is something that must be thought of and discussed not only in the beginning, but the middle and END in order to ensure a fair and respectable Govt and tax system that everyone is happy with.
I mean, sure - if you are rich, you can bring a private boat and move there and haul in your own solar power and wind turbines and try and grow your own food...but we aren't all made of money. When we pool our money together, as shown with Ron Paul's fundraising, we can achieve impossible feats of massive magnitude...just like buying an island to start with.
_________________
"...may your chains set lightly upon you..." - Samuel Adams |
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Elite_Master
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| All good thoughts. |
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christagious
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Canton, OH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DarkLaw wrote: |
Also - you have to realize that a project like this DOES require a small form of Communism to the extent that those pioneers that invest in the Island and move there MUST help support it in order to make it happen (at least in the beginning).
Simply buying in for your $5,000 share or whatever is NOT the only thing required to keep a sovereign nation going. You MUSt have some sort of tax base. And taxes are NOT 'evil' or bad. Only when the People are taxed without fair representation and for the greater good of a few are they bad.
When a SMALL and FAIR tax is accessed upon the People, it helps the Nation prosper. And that is one of the MOST important aspects of building a Nation/Island from scratch. Otherwise it will fail and you will own a barren piece of land with no access, goods, security, or readily available utilities.
This is a MASSIVELY detailed conversation, just in itself, but when looking at the bigger picture, it is something that must be thought of and discussed not only in the beginning, but the middle and END in order to ensure a fair and respectable Govt and tax system that everyone is happy with.
I mean, sure - if you are rich, you can bring a private boat and move there and haul in your own solar power and wind turbines and try and grow your own food...but we aren't all made of money. When we pool our money together, as shown with Ron Paul's fundraising, we can achieve impossible feats of massive magnitude...just like buying an island to start with.
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I'm not too thrilled about the tax idea. I think that since all these people would be moving to the island to escape, I think we'd all be willing to put in some elbow grease to build things such as roads, buildings, etc. I don't really see a need to charge taxes for things because I know I'd be willing to put in all the hard work necessary to make the island a good place to live.
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The answer to 1984 is 1776 |
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Lost_in_Samoa
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Anarcho-Capitalism |
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| skinnyskittles1989 wrote: |
| Is anyone familiar with anarcho-capitalism? I think this would be the best way to go about ensuring the the island flourishes in a way that maximizes freedom and prosperity. |
I think y'all are putting the cart in front of the horse.
How about we focus on locating a prospective island first?
Then worry about purchasing it?
And then work out how to get there and set up living there?
my 2 cents |
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Elite_Master
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll second that. |
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DarkLaw
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 5
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Anarcho-Capitalism |
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| Lost_in_Samoa wrote: |
| skinnyskittles1989 wrote: |
| Is anyone familiar with anarcho-capitalism? I think this would be the best way to go about ensuring the the island flourishes in a way that maximizes freedom and prosperity. |
I think y'all are putting the cart in front of the horse.
How about we focus on locating a prospective island first?
Then worry about purchasing it?
And then work out how to get there and set up living there?
my 2 cents |
Ehhhh, I think just the opposite.
The LAND itself is not an issue. There are THOUSANDS
of islands throughout the world, if not tens of thousands.
There will be only ONE Govt/Civilization ON said island.
I'm more worried about the MANAGEMENT and living quality of
the Island moreso than what coordinates it can be found at.
I'm much more concerned about the daily infrastructure being
set up and productive. Islands are everywhere!
_________________
"...may your chains set lightly upon you..." - Samuel Adams |
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Elite_Master
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, but affordable islands, and arable islands, and islands in international waters are not so plentiful.
And yes, the government is extremely important. |
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Lost_in_Samoa
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Anarcho-Capitalism |
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| DarkLaw wrote: |
| Lost_in_Samoa wrote: |
| skinnyskittles1989 wrote: |
| Is anyone familiar with anarcho-capitalism? I think this would be the best way to go about ensuring the the island flourishes in a way that maximizes freedom and prosperity. |
I think y'all are putting the cart in front of the horse.
How about we focus on locating a prospective island first?
Then worry about purchasing it?
And then work out how to get there and set up living there?
my 2 cents |
Ehhhh, I think just the opposite.
The LAND itself is not an issue. There are THOUSANDS
of islands throughout the world, if not tens of thousands.
There will be only ONE Govt/Civilization ON said island.
I'm more worried about the MANAGEMENT and living quality of
the Island moreso than what coordinates it can be found at.
I'm much more concerned about the daily infrastructure being
set up and productive. Islands are everywhere! |
Granted there are a lot of islands on the planet. But our scope has several limiting factors.
1.) Size. A populace large enough to need a formal government is going to take a very sizable island. More than the 400->500 acre estimates that have been bandied about.
2.) There are not that many islands in international waters. The ones that are and are of a viable minimum size are petty much already taken.
3.) Productive islands. There are a great many islands that are not able to support any type of agriculture. Such islands are not really suited for a prospective nations needs.
So here is just a thought.
Instead of thinking on the scale of starting a nation why don't we start a little smaller and focus on setting up a commune ( I hate to use that word) type of society on a smaller island.
As we learn about living on an island we can grow our populace and skills. Once we are strong enough, IF WE BECOME strong enough. then we can declare independence. |
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Zavoi
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| With anarcho-capitalism, what's to stop one defense agency from subjugating the others and the people, and becoming an oppressive State? How is anarcho-capitalism distinguishable from the condition of anarchy from which all governments arose? |
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Zavoi
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| skinnyskittles1989 wrote: |
| How many agencies there are depends on what size agency does the most efficient job of protecting its clients. My own guess is that the umber will be nearer 10,000 than 3. If the performance of present-day police forces is any indication, a protection agency protecting as many as one million people is far above optimum size. |
I would think that a larger agency would be more "efficient" than a small agency, because it would not have to handle disputes with other agencies among its members.
The problem, in my opinion, is that the usual arguments in favor of a free-market system rely on the assumption that people are free to choose what contracts to make, without being subject to coercion. But when the service being sold is itself the use of force, the argument breaks down. If I make a contract with a defense agency, what incentive will it have to abide by that contract? If they just take all my money, they'll profit a lot more. And they won't gain anything by defending me from criminals, since they can just take whatever they want from me. If I hire another defense agency to defend me against the first, the same situation would apply. This second agency can simply share in the profit with the first.
The usual response is that other customers will see this happening and will steer clear of this "rogue" defense agency. It is seen as analogous to, say, a restaurant whose food results in illness and loses patrons. But the defense agency has more to gain by forcing all its customers to stay with it and give them money, under threat of violence (i.e. extortion), than by operating in an honest manner. In short, I think that the potential gain to be had from engaging in extortion more than outweighs the potential loss.
Black markets are a good example of anarchy in action. If Fat Tony doesn't make good on his cocaine deal, you can't take him to court; you hire goons to go after him. Can you explain why these groups have not embraced anarcho-capitalism, and why there is continuous violence whenever a black market is created? After all, wouldn't all the participants in the black market benefit from having a peaceful means of enforcing their agreements and protecting their lives and property? And yet there is no order, only gang warfare. |
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